Re: [MT-AU Public] Fwd: xDSL SFPs

1 Dec 2017

      ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of
Damien Gardner Jnr
Sent: Friday, 1 December 2017 6:49 AM
To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>
Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Fwd: xDSL SFPs
Has anyone actually got their hands on one of these modules yet?  I've
just
put in a paypal dispute with the supplier I ordered through in Germany, as
it's
now been six months, and they've completely stopped replying to my emails
asking for a shipping date :\
On 9 August 2017 at 19:04, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
...
Just my 2c on this discussion ;)
Current compliance mark is now 'RCM' - there is not C tick or A tick
any
more: 'Regulatory Compliance Mark' is a combo approach.
All equipment must adhere to the relevant standards regardless of
whether it is communications equipment or other - both 'intentional'
and 'unintentional' RF emissions need to be tested, so it is
technically immaterial whether the device is used over a private cable
or not.
In the end, though, you need to weigh up the risk of using uncertified
equipment over potential of being taken to task for it.  It *is*
illegal to use non-compliant equipment, but the main questions you
need to ask yourself is "who is going to prove it?", and "who is going
to sue you for it?" ;-)
Cheers!
Mike.
...
-----Original Message-----
From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf
Of
Paul
Julian
Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 5:49 PM
To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; 'MikroTik Australia Public List'
<public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>
Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Fwd: xDSL SFPs
Thanks for pointing that out Jason, there are lots of approvals and
certifications
in place in this country, when talking about communication devices,
as we
were
specifically doing, I was referring to communication device
approvals and simply quoting the ACMA themselves.
You also need approvals for power packs, power boards, and just
about everything else you could imagine connecting to a piece of
wire
somewhere,
somehow, and of course wireless devices of any kind, but I wasn't
referring to
those.
Regards
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf
Of
Jason
Hecker (Up & Running Tech)
Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 5:41 PM
To: MikroTik Australia Public List
Subject: [MT-AU Public] Fwd: xDSL SFPs
That's flat out wrong.  Have a look at the PDF on
http://www.acma.gov.au/
Industry/Suppliers/Regulatory-arrangements/EMC-
Electromagnetic-compatibility/emc-standards-list and see page 5.
All IT equipment - no exceptions - must be tested (by an approved
tester) to and comply with CISPR-32 and get a C-Tick for use in
Australia.
Upshot is don't import and use or sell the SPF modules unless the
supplier
has
ensure it's complied.  Duxtel know all about this - they supply all
their
Mikrotik
gear (including boring old routers with no Wifi) with pretty little
compliance
stickers.
On 9 August 2017 at 17:05, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au>
wrote:
...
Agreed, the VC-231's are Tick approved, PSU and Bridge, we use a
lot of them when deployed as a NTU for a VDSL2 DSLAM
Implementation or as a point to point VDSL2 link.
C tick or A tick approval is only required when connecting
telecommunication devices to public communication networks, C tick
or A tick approval is required for radio communications devices,
so if it's a telecommunications device connected to a private wire
you don't need approval, if it's a radio communications device you
need approval no matter what.
The ACMA make it pretty clear on their website if you aren't sure.
http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/bringing-communications-
equipment-into-australia
Regards
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On
Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech)
Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 4:52 PM
To: MikroTik Australia Public List
Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] xDSL SFPs
That's partly true.  As it's an active device it still needs
C-Tick approval for electromagnetic compatibility and susceptibility
reasons.
There are likely even considerations for electrical isolation as
it can connect two sites on different AC phases and potentials.
Considering it's pumping HF energy into a long wire it's like a
radio transmitter anyway so it definitely needs to comply.
On 9 August 2017 at 16:45, Paul Julian
<paul@oxygennetworks.com.au>
wrote:
...
If it's a private CAT3 cable there are no approvals required as
it's just a private link.
We use the Planet VC-231 bridges for that sort of thing, they
are pretty good and will do 100/100 over a couple of hundred
metres with
good cable.
Regards
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On
Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech)
Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 4:41 PM
To: MikroTik Australia Public List
Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] xDSL SFPs
Yes the belt and braces and correct way is to find a version
that someone has had approved for use in Australia.  I don't
think anyone has done that yet!  It'd be nice if the
manufacturer did the legwork but they only do FCC and CE.
On 9 August 2017 at 16:33, Russell Hurren
<russell@zeropointnetworks.com>
wrote:
...
I've just had a client call me and ask for a WiFi repeater to
go in the house next to their motel. There's already CAT3
running between the buildings, so something like that would be
a good
option
for
me.
I'd be willing to order a pair and give it a try, but I'm not
sure about the legality - I presume it'd need an A-Tick
approval?
I've got a CRS125 in the main building and I could put a hAP
ac in the house and it'd be a nice clean option, compared to
using something like a Planet VC-231.
-----Original Message-----
From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On
Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech)
Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 8:37
To: MikroTik Australia Public List
<public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>
Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] xDSL SFPs
That said, the
http://www.proscend.com/en-gb/product/sfp/180cr.html
looks interesting for linking buildings that have old CAT3
cabling in between.  I reckon I could have used that sort of
thing in a few places instead of wireless.  Has anyone tried
these sort of
VDSL2
bridges?
On 26 July 2017 at 10:20, Philip Loenneker
<Philip.Loenneker@tasmanet.
com.au
> wrote:
> If anyone would care to donate a unit, I have a service I
> can test it
on.
> And as an RSP, we have direct access to the NBN portal to
> request reactivation if it gets blocked :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On
> Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech)
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 10:17 AM
> To: MikroTik Australia Public List
> <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] xDSL SFPs
>
> I think we're all pretty excited about the prospects of
> those
> VDSL2 and G.Fast SFP modules (I am getting FTTC so G.Fast is
> probably on the cards one day).  I guess you can be the
> guinea pig and be the one to risk explaining to your ISP why
> your port should
be unlocked.
> ;)
>
> On 26 July 2017 at 10:09, Damien Gardner Jnr
> <rendrag@rendrag.net>
wrote:
>
> > If you plug in a modem which does not support G.vector,
> > the port will get shut down within ~10 minutes, and
> > requires a support request from your
> RSP
> > to NBNco to have the port re-enabled.  They don't
> > specifically detect
> modem
> > model and shut down if they don't know the model though,
> > as far as I
> know.
> >
> > IPOE on ADSL is an interesting one, that'd make setup very
easy!
> >
> > On 26 July 2017 at 10:05, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech)
> > < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >> Be careful, I remember reading that modems not tested and
> >> authorised for NBN use can cause the port to be locked.
> >> Until someone goes to the expense of having them tested
> >> and approved for use in Australia (cough .. Mike?) you
> >> may not get
much
joy.
> >> They might work on a bog standard ADSL line.
> >>
> >> Speaking of which, I might be late to the party but I
> >> noticed that
> Telstra
> >> ADSL now supports IPoE as well as PPPoE/A.  I reset an
> >> old cheapie/dodgy TPLink modem the other day for someone
> >> and without doing anything the PC connected did a DHCP
> >> request and got a public IP/DNS!  When I set the modem up
> >> to do IPoE it picked all that up as well but for some
> >> reason wouldn't NAT or proxy the DNS.  Wrote the modem
> >> off and we proceeded to order an
NBN service.
> >>
> >> On 26 July 2017 at 09:57, Damien Gardner Jnr
> >> <rendrag@rendrag.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Anyone else ordered one of the 180-T's yet?  innet24.de
> >> > are now
> selling
> >> > them, but are waiting on a firmware update (due out
> >> > next
> >> > week) before they're shipping more units.  Looking
> >> > forward to getting one and
> seeing
> >> how
> >> > they go on NBN, if I can remove one device from the
> >> > network at home,
> >> I'll
> >> > be very happy!
> >> >
> >> > On 19 May 2017 at 08:08, Thomas Jackson
> >> > <thomas@thomax.com.au>
wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Thanks for the responses everyone
> >> > >
> >> > > Looks like we're using the double-sided tape again
> >> > > this time around
> :)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Sent from mobile
> >> > >
> >> > > Thomas Jackson
> >> > > Managing Director
> >> > > +61 2 8378 5555
> >> > >
> >> > > > On 18 May 2017, at 12:54 pm, Mike Everest
> >> > > > <mike@duxtel.com>
> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi Everyone,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I thought I'd chip in some commentary here since
> >> > > > there is
> obviously
> >> > > plenty
> >> > > > of interest :-}
> >> > > >
> >> > > > There are at least two products around that
> >> > > > implement some form of
> >> vDSL
> >> > > in
> >> > > > an SFP module, but there are lots of hurdles
> >> > > > preventing release to
> >> AU
> >> > > market
> >> > > > which are partly commercial (vendor requests
> >> > > > significant
> >> > > > - circi
> >> > USD100K
> >> > > -
> >> > > > commitment prior to even proving viable operation
> >> > > > on any given
> >> network)
> >> > > and
> >> > > > partly technical (vDSL definition is somewhat 'loose'
> >> > > > in
> >> implementation
> >> > > such
> >> > > > that there is no guarantee that something that
> >> > > > works well with one
> >> > vendor
> >> > > > DSLAM will also work with every other)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > At DuxTel, we've been trying to work out a solution
> >> > > > for many
> months,
> >> > and
> >> > > > although we are closing on a potential outcome,
> >> > > > there is no firm
> >> date
> >> > for
> >> > > > market readiness.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > One thing that we know of thus far:
> >> > > > - devices are real, and actually exist ;)
> >> > > > - devices work with MikroTik RouterOS to the extent
> >> > > > that they are
> >> > > recognised
> >> > > > by SFP drivers and 'inserted module' parameters are
> >> > > > reported
> >> correctly
> >> > > > - MikroTik are 'on board' to develop further
> >> > > > support to implement
> >> some
> >> > > form
> >> > > > of configuration interface for routerOS and this
> >> > > > type of device
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Here is what we don't have yet:
> >> > > > - commercial agreement with manufacturing vendor/s
> >> > > > to support
> >> > > development of
> >> > > > solution to work with any given vDSL service (read:
> >> > > > NBN)
> >> > > > - compliance testing documentation to support RCM
> >> > > > eligbility for
> AU
> >> > > > environment
> >> > > >
> >> > > > What needs to happen before they are made available
> >> > > > to the AU
> >> market:
> >> > > > - compliance testing and certification
> >> > > > - testing (and probably some driver/firmware
> >> > > > development) to work
> >> with
> >> > > NBNCo
> >> > > > DSLAMs and other DSLAM vendors
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The big hurdle to the above is in coming to some
> >> > > > commercial
> >> agreement
> >> > > with
> >> > > > one or more vendors that satisfies their need to
> >> > > > cover costs of
> >> final
> >> > > stages
> >> > > > of development and compliance testing.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > My assessment of where this is all at is that the
> >> > > > manufacturer/s
> >> have
> >> > > > developed some 'proof of concept' hardware that
> >> > > > seems to
> implement a
> >> > > general
> >> > > > form of vDSL (with ADSL fallback) BUT (and that's a
> >> > > > big
> >> > > > BUT) there
> >> is a
> >> > > lot
> >> > > > of technical work to be done to deliver sufficient
> >> > > > confidence that
> >> they
> >> > > will
> >> > > > work reliably over any particular or general vDSL
network.
> >> > > > That
> is
> >> not
> >> > > even
> >> > > > beginning to consider whether they are likely to
> >> > > > meet any
> particular
> >> > > > regulatory compliance requirements for AU or any
> >> > > > other
> jurisdiction
> >> ;)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > So short story is: they are coming, perhaps, but
> >> > > > probably not any
> >> time
> >> > > soon
> >> > > > :-J
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Questions (on or off list) are welcome!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Cheers,  Mike.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au
> >> > > > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/
mailman/listinfo/public_talk.
> >> > mikrotik.com.au
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Public mailing list
> >> > > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au
> >> > >
http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.
> >> > > mi
> >> > > k
> >> rotik.com.au
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Damien Gardner Jnr
> >> > VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust rendrag@rendrag.net -
> >> > http://www.rendrag.net/
> >> > --
> >> > We rode on the winds of the rising storm,  We ran to
> >> > the sounds of thunder.
> >> > We danced among the lightning bolts,  and tore the
> >> > world asunder
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Public mailing list
> >> > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au
> >> > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_tal
> >> > k.mi
> >> > k
> >> rotik.com.au
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Public mailing list
> >> Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au
> >> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.
> mikrotik.com.au
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Damien Gardner Jnr
> > VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust rendrag@rendrag.net -
> > http://www.rendrag.net/
> > --
> > We rode on the winds of the rising storm,  We ran to the
> > sounds of thunder.
> > We danced among the lightning bolts,  and tore the world
> > asunder
> >
>
>
>
> --
> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au>
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> Public mailing list
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--
Damien Gardner Jnr
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
rendrag@rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
--
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,  We ran to the sounds of
Hi Damien,

They have probably been stung by the same problem as us - manufacturer has
taken our order and offered an initial dispatch date of October 25, then
revised to November 25, and now revised to January 4!  :-(

Like that German company you mention, we've been taking advance orders based
on indicative availability dates by the manufacturer, but they just keep
pushing the dates along.  There has been no official advice at all of what
could be causing the delays, but I suspect it is not about actual
production, and quite possibly commercial wrangling...

You are welcome to put in an order with us, if you want to - there is no
payment required until goods become available, and no obligation to proceed
if your needs change in the meantime! :-}

Cheers!

Mike.

thunder.
...
We danced among the lightning bolts,
 and tore the world asunder
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