Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
Hello all! For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97 Some good news, some not so.. Cheers, Mike. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
Thanks for the updates Mike, A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco Matt. On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
You took the exact word out of my mouth. Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:53, Andrew Oakeley wrote:
Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout.
Ahh fuck
Sent from iPhone
On 11 Jun 2021, at 18:11, Matthew Perkins <matt@spectrum.com.au <mailto:matt%40spectrum.com.au>> wrote:
Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout.
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+1 Denis Hancock CTO Samurai Consulting Pty Ltd
On 11 Jun 2021, at 20:54, Andrew Oakeley <andrew@oakeley.com.au> wrote:
Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout.
Ahh fuck
Sent from iPhone
On 11 Jun 2021, at 18:11, Matthew Perkins <matt@spectrum.com.au> wrote:
Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout.
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Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned. Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
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We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's Matt On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote:
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
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I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module. It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq (https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic) It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets. Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action? I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did. Kind regards Russell Hurren -----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's Matt On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote:
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
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From i-Lan (Draytek Distributor)
We have just been informed by Draytek Customers about this SOS /ROC release Our Draytek Routers uses the intel chip set and we are doing investigations on how this will affect us. We understand that the Vigor 130 is not yet compatible with this feature . It looks like the 2765 had a beta version firmware tested by NBN some time back. For the time being the feedback we got from NBN is that " For devices without chipset vendor SOS/ROC support eg 2760 -130 , the behaviour should be that if the CPE does not support SOS/ROC then it should fall back to Dynamic SRA Upstream on and Downstream on (this has been a long time nbn DSLAM default). The DSLAM will accept this fallback behaviour. " but again we are waiting more info from Draytek Taiwan and from NBN if this fall back will work properly. I will get back to you as soon as we get more info. -----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Monday, 14 June 2021 14:15 To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module. It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq (https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic) It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets. Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action? I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did. Kind regards Russell Hurren -----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's Matt On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote:
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
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_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
That is correct - fallback is how the upgrade Proscend/Metanoia firmware addresses the issue. In other words, PS180-T will not support SOS or ROC, but it will continue to sync once those are enabled on the DSLAM. Operation should continue the same, just gets no benefit from those features which are apparently intended to improve performance when the lines are dodgy. Now, why would our first class national network need a feature like that? ;-) Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2021 10:28 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
From i-Lan (Draytek Distributor)
We have just been informed by Draytek Customers about this SOS /ROC release
Our Draytek Routers uses the intel chip set and we are doing investigations on how this will affect us. We understand that the Vigor 130 is not yet compatible with this feature . It looks like the 2765 had a beta version firmware tested by NBN some time back. For the time being the feedback we got from NBN is that "
For devices without chipset vendor SOS/ROC support eg 2760 -130 , the behaviour should be that if the CPE does not support SOS/ROC then it should fall back to Dynamic SRA Upstream on and Downstream on (this has been a long time nbn DSLAM default). The DSLAM will accept this fallback behaviour. "
but again we are waiting more info from Draytek Taiwan and from NBN if this fall back will work properly.
I will get back to you as soon as we get more info.
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Monday, 14 June 2021 14:15 To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module.
It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq (https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic)
It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets.
Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action?
I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did.
Kind regards
Russell Hurren
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's
Matt
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using
On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote: old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no
wifi.
Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
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Hi Mike, Just to confirm here you are saying that the PS180-T will only be modified for fallback and will not (never ? )support ROC/SOS after the firmware update. It would be good to know that now so we can make decisions going forward. Matt On 6/15/21 10:38 PM, Mike Everest wrote:
That is correct - fallback is how the upgrade Proscend/Metanoia firmware addresses the issue.
In other words, PS180-T will not support SOS or ROC, but it will continue to sync once those are enabled on the DSLAM.
Operation should continue the same, just gets no benefit from those features which are apparently intended to improve performance when the lines are dodgy.
Now, why would our first class national network need a feature like that? ;-)
Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2021 10:28 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
From i-Lan (Draytek Distributor)
We have just been informed by Draytek Customers about this SOS /ROC release
Our Draytek Routers uses the intel chip set and we are doing investigations on how this will affect us. We understand that the Vigor 130 is not yet compatible with this feature . It looks like the 2765 had a beta version firmware tested by NBN some time back. For the time being the feedback we got from NBN is that "
For devices without chipset vendor SOS/ROC support eg 2760 -130 , the behaviour should be that if the CPE does not support SOS/ROC then it should fall back to Dynamic SRA Upstream on and Downstream on (this has been a long time nbn DSLAM default). The DSLAM will accept this fallback behaviour. "
but again we are waiting more info from Draytek Taiwan and from NBN if this fall back will work properly.
I will get back to you as soon as we get more info.
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Monday, 14 June 2021 14:15 To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module.
It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq (https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic)
It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets.
Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action?
I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did.
Kind regards
Russell Hurren
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's
Matt
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using
On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote: old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
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-- /* Matt Perkins Direct 02 8916 8101 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. Office 1300 133 299 matt@spectrum.com.au ABN 66 090 112 913 Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000 */
Hi Matt! The facts are unclear, but the likely short answer to your question is 'yes'. As for the LONG answer.... What makes us uncertain is that the detail offered by the manufacturer and OEM producer is rather vague - potentially partly language barriers, but also probably a lot of 'coyness' also ; ) What they tell us is that the chipset manufacturer (Metanoia) apparently consider this a relatively low priority in their development profile, as they apparently have a primary focus on their 5G product development at the moment. They also say that they cannot guarantee that any particular new feature required by the DSLAM operator will or 'can' be supported by future firmware updates. My /guess/ is that this is code for acknowledging some limitations in what capacity in firmware exists for further functionality - e.g. limited Firmware EPROM having little remaining capacity for additional code, or CPU capability reaching processing limits. My expectation is that IF there is future support for SOS/ROC, that it will probably come with a new hardware revision, like "PS190-T" or something like that. In an apparent attempt to allay our concern that these modems may become completely useless in future, they repeatedly claim that of all the network operators around the world using VDSL as part of their national connectivity technology mix, our NBNCo is the only one who has elected to go with these ROC and SOS features. In my mind, I always append the words "so far" to statements like that, so I'm not sure how important such facts might be ;-) Since these functions are both intended for "Improves stability and recovery in harsh conditions", introduction of those features on FTTn/b DSLAMs will only benefit those circuits that are struggling under 'harsh conditions'. Therefore, it is fair to expect that where PS180-T delivers a satisfactory link to date, then it will continue to do so after the update occurs. The same would be true, for that matter, of any other hardware modem - whether it does support ROC/SOS or not. For anyone interested, you can ready some more about ROC and SOS in this "horse's mouth" kind of document: https://www.broadband-forum.org/download/TR-197.pdf
From an ISP perspective, considering options for a standard deployment model, I suspect that the benefit of PS180-T over alternative modem options will not change a great deal. The key question for you will be about whether there is sufficient benefit to PS180-T to keep that as an option when there may be some cases (probably less than 1%) where a modem supporting SOS/ROC will have some benefit.
Does any of that offer the clarification you were after? :-} I'm very open to further questions, comments, criticisms or corrections from anyone! : ) Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Matt Perkins [mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 16 June 2021 12:07 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
Hi Mike,
Just to confirm here you are saying that the PS180-T will only be modified for fallback and will not (never ? )support ROC/SOS after the firmware update. It would be good to know that now so we can make decisions going forward.
Matt
On 6/15/21 10:38 PM, Mike Everest wrote:
That is correct - fallback is how the upgrade Proscend/Metanoia firmware addresses the issue.
In other words, PS180-T will not support SOS or ROC, but it will continue to sync once those are enabled on the DSLAM.
Operation should continue the same, just gets no benefit from those features which are apparently intended to improve performance when the lines are dodgy.
Now, why would our first class national network need a feature like that? ;-)
Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2021 10:28 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
From i-Lan (Draytek Distributor)
We have just been informed by Draytek Customers about this SOS /ROC release
Our Draytek Routers uses the intel chip set and we are doing investigations on how this will affect us. We understand that the Vigor 130 is not yet compatible with this feature . It looks like the 2765 had a beta version firmware tested by NBN some time back. For the time being the feedback we got from NBN is that "
For devices without chipset vendor SOS/ROC support eg 2760 -130 , the behaviour should be that if the CPE does not support SOS/ROC then it should fall back to Dynamic SRA Upstream on and Downstream on (this has been a long time nbn DSLAM default). The DSLAM will accept this fallback behaviour. "
but again we are waiting more info from Draytek Taiwan and from NBN if this fall back will work properly.
I will get back to you as soon as we get more info.
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Monday, 14 June 2021 14:15 To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module.
It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq (https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic)
It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets.
Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action?
I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did.
Kind regards
Russell Hurren
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's
Matt
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using
On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote: old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
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Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com .au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com .au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com .au
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-- /* Matt Perkins Direct 02 8916 8101 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. Office 1300 133 299 matt@spectrum.com.au ABN 66 090 112 913 Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000 */
Thanks for the clarification Mike. Matt On 17/6/21 6:43 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hi Matt!
The facts are unclear, but the likely short answer to your question is 'yes'.
As for the LONG answer....
What makes us uncertain is that the detail offered by the manufacturer and OEM producer is rather vague - potentially partly language barriers, but also probably a lot of 'coyness' also ; )
What they tell us is that the chipset manufacturer (Metanoia) apparently consider this a relatively low priority in their development profile, as they apparently have a primary focus on their 5G product development at the moment.
They also say that they cannot guarantee that any particular new feature required by the DSLAM operator will or 'can' be supported by future firmware updates. My /guess/ is that this is code for acknowledging some limitations in what capacity in firmware exists for further functionality - e.g. limited Firmware EPROM having little remaining capacity for additional code, or CPU capability reaching processing limits.
My expectation is that IF there is future support for SOS/ROC, that it will probably come with a new hardware revision, like "PS190-T" or something like that.
In an apparent attempt to allay our concern that these modems may become completely useless in future, they repeatedly claim that of all the network operators around the world using VDSL as part of their national connectivity technology mix, our NBNCo is the only one who has elected to go with these ROC and SOS features. In my mind, I always append the words "so far" to statements like that, so I'm not sure how important such facts might be ;-)
Since these functions are both intended for "Improves stability and recovery in harsh conditions", introduction of those features on FTTn/b DSLAMs will only benefit those circuits that are struggling under 'harsh conditions'. Therefore, it is fair to expect that where PS180-T delivers a satisfactory link to date, then it will continue to do so after the update occurs. The same would be true, for that matter, of any other hardware modem - whether it does support ROC/SOS or not.
For anyone interested, you can ready some more about ROC and SOS in this "horse's mouth" kind of document: https://www.broadband-forum.org/download/TR-197.pdf
From an ISP perspective, considering options for a standard deployment model, I suspect that the benefit of PS180-T over alternative modem options will not change a great deal. The key question for you will be about whether there is sufficient benefit to PS180-T to keep that as an option when there may be some cases (probably less than 1%) where a modem supporting SOS/ROC will have some benefit.
Does any of that offer the clarification you were after? :-}
I'm very open to further questions, comments, criticisms or corrections from anyone! : )
Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Matt Perkins [mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 16 June 2021 12:07 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
Hi Mike,
Just to confirm here you are saying that the PS180-T will only be modified for fallback and will not (never ? )support ROC/SOS after the firmware update. It would be good to know that now so we can make decisions going forward.
Matt
On 6/15/21 10:38 PM, Mike Everest wrote:
That is correct - fallback is how the upgrade Proscend/Metanoia firmware addresses the issue.
In other words, PS180-T will not support SOS or ROC, but it will continue to sync once those are enabled on the DSLAM.
Operation should continue the same, just gets no benefit from those features which are apparently intended to improve performance when the lines are dodgy.
Now, why would our first class national network need a feature like that? ;-)
Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2021 10:28 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
From i-Lan (Draytek Distributor)
We have just been informed by Draytek Customers about this SOS /ROC release
Our Draytek Routers uses the intel chip set and we are doing investigations on how this will affect us. We understand that the Vigor 130 is not yet compatible with this feature . It looks like the 2765 had a beta version firmware tested by NBN some time back. For the time being the feedback we got from NBN is that "
For devices without chipset vendor SOS/ROC support eg 2760 -130 , the behaviour should be that if the CPE does not support SOS/ROC then it should fall back to Dynamic SRA Upstream on and Downstream on (this has been a long time nbn DSLAM default). The DSLAM will accept this fallback behaviour. "
but again we are waiting more info from Draytek Taiwan and from NBN if this fall back will work properly.
I will get back to you as soon as we get more info.
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Monday, 14 June 2021 14:15 To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module.
It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq (https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic)
It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets.
Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action?
I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did.
Kind regards
Russell Hurren
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's
Matt
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using
On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote: old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote: > Hello all! > > For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we > have an updated notice available here: > https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97 > > Some good news, some not so.. > > Cheers, Mike. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > -------- > -------- > Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? > 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > -------- > -------- > Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik. > co > m.au _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au <mailto:Public%40talk.mikrotik.com.au> http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.c om .au
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Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com .au
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Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au -- /* Matt Perkins Direct 02 8916 8101 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. Office 1300 133 299 matt@spectrum.com.au ABN 66 090 112 913 Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000 */
I'm really hoping the Vigor-130 will be ok. I run a 180-T, with a Vigor-130 as my backup in case of failure :D It's REALLY hard to find VDSL modems that support tiny jumbo's - the Vigor-130 is basically the only one I've ever found other than the 180-T modules! :( Now that they're EOL, I'm hanging on to all I have because they're like gold! :D On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 at 10:28, Russell Hurren <russell@zeropointnetworks.com> wrote:
From i-Lan (Draytek Distributor)
We have just been informed by Draytek Customers about this SOS /ROC release
Our Draytek Routers uses the intel chip set and we are doing investigations on how this will affect us. We understand that the Vigor 130 is not yet compatible with this feature . It looks like the 2765 had a beta version firmware tested by NBN some time back. For the time being the feedback we got from NBN is that "
For devices without chipset vendor SOS/ROC support eg 2760 -130 , the behaviour should be that if the CPE does not support SOS/ROC then it should fall back to Dynamic SRA Upstream on and Downstream on (this has been a long time nbn DSLAM default). The DSLAM will accept this fallback behaviour. "
but again we are waiting more info from Draytek Taiwan and from NBN if this fall back will work properly.
I will get back to you as soon as we get more info.
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Russell Hurren Sent: Monday, 14 June 2021 14:15 To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au> Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
I just received a similar notification. It lists my home Internet which used to use the Proscend device (I switched to a Draytek Vigor 130 a while back to isolate some line issues and didn't switch back). I've got a few sites with Draytek Vigor 130s, and one that used one temporarily after a lightning strike took out the Cisco module.
It lists these as POSSIBLE AFFECTED SERVICES INTEL CHIPSET though - I didn't think the Draytek used an Intel chipset? Whirlpool says it's Lantiq ( https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/vdsl2_modem_routers_working_basic)
It also says 'Intel chip set devices will become unstable, causing a higher percentage of dropouts and service instability' which doesn't sound as bad as what will happen to Metanoia chipsets.
Can anyone confirm whether Draytek Vigor 130s will be affected, and if so recommend a course of action?
I'm thankful that I didn't start rolling out the proscend modules, but sympathise with those who did.
Kind regards
Russell Hurren
-----Original Message----- From: Public <public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au> On Behalf Of Matthew Perkins Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2021 15:20 To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Update on Proscend PS180-T VDSL modem issue
We got the info in a round about way from NBNco. They gave us a list of all our customers that are effected and on tracing them back to modem types. We discovered they are Proscend and Vigor130's
Matt
On 12/6/21 11:56 am, Jason Hecker wrote:
Where did you get this info from about the Draytek Vigor 130? I am using old Netgear DM200's and TG799VACs as bridges as well as one or two 130's that work fine to this day but now I am concerned.
Regards, Jason Hecker <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/> <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au/>
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, at 20:08, Matthew Perkins wrote:
Thanks for the updates Mike,
A FYI that is also mikrotik related. Draytek Vigor 130's also seem to have an issue with the SOS rollout. Im sure a lot of Mikrotik users use V130's as dumb bridges as they are a cheap vdsl modem with no wifi. Take care as they have also been flagged by NBNco
I do not know if a version upgrade will fix the issue at this point we are trying to clarify with NBNco
Matt.
On 11/6/21 3:07 pm, Mike Everest wrote:
Hello all!
For those who have been following the firmware update issue, we have an updated notice available here: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=97
Some good news, some not so..
Cheers, Mike. -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Why Choose DuxTel for all your MikroTik needs? 10 good reasons: http://duxtel.com/why_duxtel -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- -------- Follow our tweets for news and updates: http://twitter.com/duxtel
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-- Damien Gardner Jnr VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust rendrag@rendrag.net - http://www.rendrag.net/ -- We rode on the winds of the rising storm, We ran to the sounds of thunder. We danced among the lightning bolts, and tore the world asunder
participants (8)
-
Andrew Oakeley -
Damien Gardner Jnr -
Denis Hancock -
Jason Hecker -
Matt Perkins -
Matthew Perkins
-
Mike Everest -
Russell Hurren