Hi Folks, Just a heads-up for anyone who hasn't already discovered, that despite marketing claims that mAP-2n supports 802.3af PoE input and passthrough, we have so far been unable to make it work like that. We've tried lots of different ways including reversal of the power pairs in case it is a polarity issue (i.e. 'type a'/'type b' deal) It *does* power up ok using a 48v power supply and standard injector, but that's not what the claims stated ;) If anyone else has done it successfully from an 802.3af or at switch, there will certainly be a lot of people interested to hear how it is done! In the meantime, MT official have been mute about it - if they have anything to say (that we are able to repeat) I'll be sure to rpat it here! :) Cheers, Mike
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2014 6:57 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Hi Folks,
Just a heads-up for anyone who hasn't already discovered, that despite marketing claims that mAP-2n supports 802.3af PoE input and passthrough, we have so far been unable to make it work like that.
We've tried lots of different ways including reversal of the power pairs in case it is a polarity issue (i.e. 'type a'/'type b' deal)
It *does* power up ok using a 48v power supply and standard injector, but that's not what the claims stated ;)
If anyone else has done it successfully from an 802.3af or at switch,
Hi All, Results of some further investigations: I discovered that my understanding of 'type A' and 'type B' was incorrect - it is not a polarity issue at all, but related to which pairs are used to deliver power. Type A: delivers power over the data pairs (1&2, 3&6) Type B: delivers power over 'spare' pairs (3&4, 5&6) The specification apparently requires that to be considered compliant, a PoE device/client 'must' support both types, but a PoE switch/provider 'may' support either. Apparently mAP will only support 'type B' mode, and so will not work with any switch that provides only type A poe - which is all of the PoE switches that I have to test. As far as I can determine, trhis will be the case with most Cisco PoE switches and probably also majority of other vendor versions. My personal assessment of the situation is that mAP can NOT be considered 802.3af compliant, without also qualifying that statement to point out that it is only for type B capable switches. If anyone is aware of a PoE switch that does work with mAP, I will be pleased to learn if mAP does work at all with any variant of 802.3af/at! ;-) Cheers, Mike. there will
certainly be a lot of people interested to hear how it is done!
In the meantime, MT official have been mute about it - if they have anything to say (that we are able to repeat) I'll be sure to rpat it here! :)
Cheers, Mike
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
Who's up for some resoldering? :-) Thanks for clarifying Mike - Andrew On 05/09/2014 2:12 pm, "Mike Everest" <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Results of some further investigations:
I discovered that my understanding of 'type A' and 'type B' was incorrect - it is not a polarity issue at all, but related to which pairs are used to deliver power.
Type A: delivers power over the data pairs (1&2, 3&6) Type B: delivers power over 'spare' pairs (3&4, 5&6)
The specification apparently requires that to be considered compliant, a PoE device/client 'must' support both types, but a PoE switch/provider 'may' support either.
Apparently mAP will only support 'type B' mode, and so will not work with any switch that provides only type A poe - which is all of the PoE switches that I have to test. As far as I can determine, trhis will be the case with most Cisco PoE switches and probably also majority of other vendor versions.
My personal assessment of the situation is that mAP can NOT be considered 802.3af compliant, without also qualifying that statement to point out that it is only for type B capable switches.
If anyone is aware of a PoE switch that does work with mAP, I will be pleased to learn if mAP does work at all with any variant of 802.3af/at! ;-)
Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2014 6:57 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Hi Folks,
Just a heads-up for anyone who hasn't already discovered, that despite marketing claims that mAP-2n supports 802.3af PoE input and passthrough, we have so far been unable to make it work like that.
We've tried lots of different ways including reversal of the power pairs in case it is a polarity issue (i.e. 'type a'/'type b' deal)
It *does* power up ok using a 48v power supply and standard injector, but that's not what the claims stated ;)
If anyone else has done it successfully from an 802.3af or at switch, there will certainly be a lot of people interested to hear how it is done!
In the meantime, MT official have been mute about it - if they have anything to say (that we are able to repeat) I'll be sure to rpat it here! :)
Cheers, Mike
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
Interesting proposition! Although potential of destroying a 50 dollar router is probably no great loss (for some) such hardware hack will hopefully not risk destroying a $5000 switch! :-D In any case, to try something like that would probably mean jumpering one core each from 1&2, 3&6 over to one each of 4&5, 6&7...? Couldn't do both, since that would end up shorting the data pair and at killing the data transmission at best, killing the device at worst ;) So is it probably also a good idea to add a diode to prevent current flowing in reverse, and I suppose a capacitor/resistor pair to take out the data signal? To my mind, with few basic electronics nouse, it seems feasible - anyone else care to comment? I'm thinking: if it is possible to do that, then it is also possible to build it as some kind of adapter... Cheers! Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrew Cox Sent: Friday, 5 September 2014 2:24 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Who's up for some resoldering? :-)
Thanks for clarifying Mike
- Andrew On 05/09/2014 2:12 pm, "Mike Everest" <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Results of some further investigations:
I discovered that my understanding of 'type A' and 'type B' was incorrect - it is not a polarity issue at all, but related to which pairs are used to deliver power.
Type A: delivers power over the data pairs (1&2, 3&6) Type B: delivers power over 'spare' pairs (3&4, 5&6)
The specification apparently requires that to be considered compliant, a PoE device/client 'must' support both types, but a PoE switch/provider 'may' support either.
Apparently mAP will only support 'type B' mode, and so will not work with any switch that provides only type A poe - which is all of the PoE switches that I have to test. As far as I can determine, trhis will be the case with most Cisco PoE switches and probably also majority of other vendor versions.
My personal assessment of the situation is that mAP can NOT be considered 802.3af compliant, without also qualifying that statement to point out that it is only for type B capable switches.
If anyone is aware of a PoE switch that does work with mAP, I will be pleased to learn if mAP does work at all with any variant of 802.3af/at! ;-)
Cheers, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2014 6:57 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Hi Folks,
Just a heads-up for anyone who hasn't already discovered, that despite marketing claims that mAP-2n supports 802.3af PoE input and passthrough, we have so far been unable to make it work like that.
We've tried lots of different ways including reversal of the power pairs in case it is a polarity issue (i.e. 'type a'/'type b' deal)
It *does* power up ok using a 48v power supply and standard injector, but that's not what the claims stated ;)
If anyone else has done it successfully from an 802.3af or at switch, there will certainly be a lot of people interested to hear how it is done!
In the meantime, MT official have been mute about it - if they have anything to say (that we are able to repeat) I'll be sure to rpat it here! :)
Cheers, Mike
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
Generally - the risk of destroying a switch is low - I've done some pretty silly things to them in the past and not had a problem. They have various protections in place to shut down ports with misbehaving devices connected etc. Not entirely impossible for something to happen though. The trick here is going to be "separating out" the data and power - unfortunately it is not as simple as just jumpering between the pins. In short, the transformer that sits between the RJ45 connector and the rest of the circuit (sometimes a separate device nearby the RJ45 connector, other times it is integrated into the RJ45 connector) needs to have a centre tap available to take the power from. See figures 2 and 3 of [0] for more details. I've just pulled my mAP apart, and from a very quick look at the RJ45 sockets (which appear to have integrated transformers), I can't see a pin that obviously relates to a centre tap - so I don't think it is going to be possible to modify it. An external adaptor could be a possibility though... [0] http://www.microsemi.com/documents/powerdsine/whitepapers/PoE_and_IEEE802_3a f.pdf -----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Friday, 5 September 2014 2:35 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af Interesting proposition! Although potential of destroying a 50 dollar router is probably no great loss (for some) such hardware hack will hopefully not risk destroying a $5000 switch! :-D In any case, to try something like that would probably mean jumpering one core each from 1&2, 3&6 over to one each of 4&5, 6&7...? Couldn't do both, since that would end up shorting the data pair and at killing the data transmission at best, killing the device at worst ;) So is it probably also a good idea to add a diode to prevent current flowing in reverse, and I suppose a capacitor/resistor pair to take out the data signal? To my mind, with few basic electronics nouse, it seems feasible - anyone else care to comment? I'm thinking: if it is possible to do that, then it is also possible to build it as some kind of adapter... Cheers! Mike.
Mikrotik have stated that "improvements" are planned in the area of 802.3af support on the mAP. Read in to this what you will. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Thomas Jackson <thomas@thomax.com.au> wrote:
Generally - the risk of destroying a switch is low - I've done some pretty silly things to them in the past and not had a problem. They have various protections in place to shut down ports with misbehaving devices connected etc. Not entirely impossible for something to happen though.
The trick here is going to be "separating out" the data and power - unfortunately it is not as simple as just jumpering between the pins. In short, the transformer that sits between the RJ45 connector and the rest of the circuit (sometimes a separate device nearby the RJ45 connector, other times it is integrated into the RJ45 connector) needs to have a centre tap available to take the power from. See figures 2 and 3 of [0] for more details.
I've just pulled my mAP apart, and from a very quick look at the RJ45 sockets (which appear to have integrated transformers), I can't see a pin that obviously relates to a centre tap - so I don't think it is going to be possible to modify it.
An external adaptor could be a possibility though...
[0]
http://www.microsemi.com/documents/powerdsine/whitepapers/PoE_and_IEEE802_3a f.pdf
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Friday, 5 September 2014 2:35 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Interesting proposition!
Although potential of destroying a 50 dollar router is probably no great loss (for some) such hardware hack will hopefully not risk destroying a $5000 switch! :-D
In any case, to try something like that would probably mean jumpering one core each from 1&2, 3&6 over to one each of 4&5, 6&7...? Couldn't do both, since that would end up shorting the data pair and at killing the data transmission at best, killing the device at worst ;)
So is it probably also a good idea to add a diode to prevent current flowing in reverse, and I suppose a capacitor/resistor pair to take out the data signal? To my mind, with few basic electronics nouse, it seems feasible - anyone else care to comment?
I'm thinking: if it is possible to do that, then it is also possible to build it as some kind of adapter...
Cheers!
Mike.
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
Hmm - I would expect that to make it properly af compliant, it would require a hardware improvement - I can't imagine how it could be done in software, so the current mAP model is still technically does not NOT 802.3af fully. <sigh>
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrew Thrift Sent: Monday, 8 September 2014 8:07 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Mikrotik have stated that "improvements" are planned in the area of 802.3af support on the mAP.
Read in to this what you will.
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Thomas Jackson <thomas@thomax.com.au> wrote:
Generally - the risk of destroying a switch is low - I've done some pretty silly things to them in the past and not had a problem. They have various protections in place to shut down ports with misbehaving devices connected etc. Not entirely impossible for something to happen though.
The trick here is going to be "separating out" the data and power - unfortunately it is not as simple as just jumpering between the pins. In short, the transformer that sits between the RJ45 connector and the rest of the circuit (sometimes a separate device nearby the RJ45 connector, other times it is integrated into the RJ45 connector) needs to have a centre tap available to take the power from. See figures 2 and 3 of [0] for more details.
I've just pulled my mAP apart, and from a very quick look at the RJ45 sockets (which appear to have integrated transformers), I can't see a pin that obviously relates to a centre tap - so I don't think it is going to be possible to modify it.
An external adaptor could be a possibility though...
[0]
http://www.microsemi.com/documents/powerdsine/whitepapers/PoE_and _IEEE
802_3a f.pdf
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Friday, 5 September 2014 2:35 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af
Interesting proposition!
Although potential of destroying a 50 dollar router is probably no great loss (for some) such hardware hack will hopefully not risk destroying a $5000 switch! :-D
In any case, to try something like that would probably mean jumpering one core each from 1&2, 3&6 over to one each of 4&5, 6&7...? Couldn't do both, since that would end up shorting the data pair and at killing the data transmission at best, killing the device at worst ;)
So is it probably also a good idea to add a diode to prevent current flowing in reverse, and I suppose a capacitor/resistor pair to take out the data signal? To my mind, with few basic electronics nouse, it seems feasible - anyone else care to comment?
I'm thinking: if it is possible to do that, then it is also possible to build it as some kind of adapter...
Cheers!
Mike.
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
My mAP doesn't work with any of the 802.3af gear I have here either - don't have any 802.3at gear at this site to test with, I'll try to remember to have a look when I'm next at a site with it. Not a huge problem for me, I plan on using it with USB power - but it would be nice if it did what it said on the packet. -----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Friday, 5 September 2014 2:12 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] mAP and 802.3af Hi All, Results of some further investigations: I discovered that my understanding of 'type A' and 'type B' was incorrect - it is not a polarity issue at all, but related to which pairs are used to deliver power. Type A: delivers power over the data pairs (1&2, 3&6) Type B: delivers power over 'spare' pairs (3&4, 5&6) The specification apparently requires that to be considered compliant, a PoE device/client 'must' support both types, but a PoE switch/provider 'may' support either. Apparently mAP will only support 'type B' mode, and so will not work with any switch that provides only type A poe - which is all of the PoE switches that I have to test. As far as I can determine, trhis will be the case with most Cisco PoE switches and probably also majority of other vendor versions. My personal assessment of the situation is that mAP can NOT be considered 802.3af compliant, without also qualifying that statement to point out that it is only for type B capable switches. If anyone is aware of a PoE switch that does work with mAP, I will be pleased to learn if mAP does work at all with any variant of 802.3af/at! ;-) Cheers, Mike.
participants (4)
-
Andrew Cox -
Andrew Thrift -
Mike Everest -
Thomas Jackson