Re: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings
Thanks. OK, outside of the default settings you're saying there isn't much that can be done in the Data Rates, Advanced and HT tabs that might have a decent impact on speeds? The Wireless Wiki doesn't go into any depth on some of the settings. Like when to set Distance to Indoors vs Dynamic Putting values into the threshold fields - do they have any effect? What effect does the adaptive noise immunity really have? Is it better to disable b/g if you don't need it? Does putting a value in for burst time help in certain situations? When is it appropriate to enable RTS and RTS/CTS? On 10 April 2015 at 15:32, DuxTel Sales (Mike) <sales@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi Jason,
Maximum throughput is dependent on many variables including: - frequency band (e.g. 2GHz, 5.1GHz, 5.4GHz, 5.8GHz) - channel width (e.g. 20MHz, 40MHz, 80MHz (ac)) - protocol (e.g 802.11a, b, g, n, ac) - number of spatial streams ( i.e. MIMO) - total number of devices active on the given channel (even on some other SSID) - number of other active non-wifi transmitters nearby - location of AP and client - orientation of antennas
Etc, etc ;)
In general, no two devices will work the same way - even the same 2 devices in slightly different orientation will behave differently.
Further to that, many of the higher end aerohive APs have proprietary signal processing system that is designed to mitigate noisy environment ('beam forming') and so they will sometimes perform better than more generic AP chipsets.
Hope it helps - questions are welcome!
Regards, Mike.
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-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) Sent: Friday, 10 April 2015 2:48 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings
The other day I was on a job an noticed I was able to transfer data from my laptop to a server over Wifi at around 15MB/s. This was to an Aerohive AP in the next room. Even in the same room I have trouble getting close to 10MB/s on with my Mikrotik AP's.
In general, what settings on the Mikrotik devices in AP mode will achieve the greatest throughput? Can it vary depending on the model?
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--
Hi Jason, ok: here goes! ;-)
Thanks. OK, outside of the default settings you're saying there isn't much that can be done in the Data Rates, Advanced and HT tabs that might have a decent impact on speeds?
That is essentially true - especially for indoor environment, things change so much that there is probably not one set of configuration that will be optimal in all cases.
The Wireless Wiki doesn't go into any depth on some of the settings.
True, some items deserve a bit more detail ;)
Like when to set Distance to Indoors vs Dynamic Putting values into the threshold fields - do they have any effect?
Default is 'indoors' - i.e. the clients are very close, so normal ack timeouts are short (default) You only need to change it if there are cliets at long distances - (farther distances have longer round-trip times, so need to wait a bit longer for the ack reply)
What effect does the adaptive noise immunity really have?
Here it is: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ#What_is_adaptive-noise-imm unity_setting.3F Essentially it is a feature of the Atheros wifi chip - it adjusts settings like hardware retry count and ack timeout values according to how the network is operating. Like if the average retry count per second starts to climb, it can increase the max count value to try to avoid retraining the connection too often. It's not really a mikrotik feature, just like a register in the hardware that can be enabled from routerOS (i.e. mikrotik just provide a user interface to enable/disable that register)
Is it better to disable b/g if you don't need it?
Only if you think that b/g clients are connecting and bringing down your total data rates. Reason is that b/g use more airtime to pass the same amount of data, so if you prevent them from connecting, only faster clients connect, thus more bandwidth to go around for all ;)
Does putting a value in for burst time help in certain situations?
Only when there is only one (or very few) clients expected to use that network at any given time. It allows devices to transmit larger chunks of data without having to break it into smaller bits and 'take turns' with others.
When is it appropriate to enable RTS and RTS/CTS?
It is old-school technique to try to avoid hidden node and deal with clients at widely varying distance and location from the AP. It can be useful in a very busy network. The idea is that a client transmits a 'ready to send' packet and wait for 'clear to send' instruction from the AP rather than jump in and start transmitting as soon as the device detects what looks like clear air. RTS is only small, and so less destructive than full data transmit in hidden node situation. <cheap plug>There is MTCWE (wireless engineer) class running after the MUM in melbourne next month - deals with these isssues and some more ;) </cheap plug> Cheers! Mike.
Hi, Thanks for the information. I'll cut to the chase... what do you use when setting AP's, especially ones with an omni antenna, for indoor use and outdoor use and how to any deviations from the default improve things? Regards Jason Hecker On 10 April 2015 at 17:19, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi Jason, ok: here goes! ;-)
Thanks. OK, outside of the default settings you're saying there isn't much that can be done in the Data Rates, Advanced and HT tabs that might have a decent impact on speeds?
That is essentially true - especially for indoor environment, things change so much that there is probably not one set of configuration that will be optimal in all cases.
The Wireless Wiki doesn't go into any depth on some of the settings.
True, some items deserve a bit more detail ;)
Like when to set Distance to Indoors vs Dynamic Putting values into the threshold fields - do they have any effect?
Default is 'indoors' - i.e. the clients are very close, so normal ack timeouts are short (default) You only need to change it if there are cliets at long distances - (farther distances have longer round-trip times, so need to wait a bit longer for the ack reply)
What effect does the adaptive noise immunity really have?
Here it is:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ#What_is_adaptive-noise-imm unity_setting.3F
Essentially it is a feature of the Atheros wifi chip - it adjusts settings like hardware retry count and ack timeout values according to how the network is operating. Like if the average retry count per second starts to climb, it can increase the max count value to try to avoid retraining the connection too often. It's not really a mikrotik feature, just like a register in the hardware that can be enabled from routerOS (i.e. mikrotik just provide a user interface to enable/disable that register)
Is it better to disable b/g if you don't need it?
Only if you think that b/g clients are connecting and bringing down your total data rates. Reason is that b/g use more airtime to pass the same amount of data, so if you prevent them from connecting, only faster clients connect, thus more bandwidth to go around for all ;)
Does putting a value in for burst time help in certain situations?
Only when there is only one (or very few) clients expected to use that network at any given time. It allows devices to transmit larger chunks of data without having to break it into smaller bits and 'take turns' with others.
When is it appropriate to enable RTS and RTS/CTS?
It is old-school technique to try to avoid hidden node and deal with clients at widely varying distance and location from the AP. It can be useful in a very busy network. The idea is that a client transmits a 'ready to send' packet and wait for 'clear to send' instruction from the AP rather than jump in and start transmitting as soon as the device detects what looks like clear air. RTS is only small, and so less destructive than full data transmit in hidden node situation.
<cheap plug>There is MTCWE (wireless engineer) class running after the MUM in melbourne next month - deals with these isssues and some more ;) </cheap plug>
Cheers!
Mike.
--
Hi Jason, For me, personally, it is never a simple formula - usually, default is the initial state. After that, depending on the behaviour of the resulting network connections, some tweaking will follow. Others on this list may have alternative schemes ;) The solution may be software configuration adjustment (retry, timer, nstreme, nv2 etc) or it may be hardware configuration (e.g sector antennas) Regards, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) Sent: Monday, 13 April 2015 2:43 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings
Hi,
Thanks for the information. I'll cut to the chase... what do you use when setting AP's, especially ones with an omni antenna, for indoor use and outdoor use and how to any deviations from the default improve things?
Regards Jason Hecker
On 10 April 2015 at 17:19, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi Jason, ok: here goes! ;-)
Thanks. OK, outside of the default settings you're saying there isn't much that can be done in the Data Rates, Advanced and HT tabs that might have a decent impact on speeds?
That is essentially true - especially for indoor environment, things change so much that there is probably not one set of configuration that will be optimal in all cases.
The Wireless Wiki doesn't go into any depth on some of the settings.
True, some items deserve a bit more detail ;)
Like when to set Distance to Indoors vs Dynamic Putting values into the threshold fields - do they have any effect?
Default is 'indoors' - i.e. the clients are very close, so normal ack timeouts are short (default) You only need to change it if there are cliets at long distances - (farther distances have longer round-trip times, so need to wait a bit longer for the ack reply)
What effect does the adaptive noise immunity really have?
Here it is:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ#What_is_adaptive- noi se-imm unity_setting.3F
Essentially it is a feature of the Atheros wifi chip - it adjusts settings like hardware retry count and ack timeout values according to how the network is operating. Like if the average retry count per second starts to climb, it can increase the max count value to try to avoid retraining the connection too often. It's not really a mikrotik feature, just like a register in the hardware that can be enabled from routerOS (i.e. mikrotik just provide a user interface to enable/disable that register)
Is it better to disable b/g if you don't need it?
Only if you think that b/g clients are connecting and bringing down your total data rates. Reason is that b/g use more airtime to pass the same amount of data, so if you prevent them from connecting, only faster clients connect, thus more bandwidth to go around for all ;)
Does putting a value in for burst time help in certain situations?
Only when there is only one (or very few) clients expected to use that network at any given time. It allows devices to transmit larger chunks of data without having to break it into smaller bits and 'take turns' with others.
When is it appropriate to enable RTS and RTS/CTS?
It is old-school technique to try to avoid hidden node and deal with clients at widely varying distance and location from the AP. It can be useful in a very busy network. The idea is that a client transmits a 'ready to send' packet and wait for 'clear to send' instruction from the AP rather than jump in and start transmitting as soon as the device detects what looks like clear air. RTS is only small, and so less destructive than full data transmit in hidden node situation.
<cheap plug>There is MTCWE (wireless engineer) class running after the MUM in melbourne next month - deals with these isssues and some more ;) </cheap plug>
Cheers!
Mike.
-- _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
I 100% agree with Mike on this, there is no silver bullet in wireless, EVERY situation is different, even the same situation is different next time you are there. Standard settings usually work well, I only run N when I need it, I only try and push enough capacity for the link requirements and detune to keep it in check, that way it is a quieter link and tends to be more reliable and attract less interference. A friend of mine runs a large wireless ISP business, his suggestions to me over time have been invaluable and greatly appreciated, in general though there are two setups that I stick with, in a PTMP scenario I use NV2 due to it being TDMA and set the TDMA size as auto, when running a PTP link I use Nstreme with defaults, and use the wireless-fp package when using NV2, it seems more stable. Other than that, and ask Mike says once again, just play with your settings, the out of the box settings will work for 95% of cases, others you may just need to do some tweaking, the most important thing to do IMHO is tread lightly, I follow this concept in my off-road adventures as well as wireless, only use the bandwidth you need, be sensible and hopefully others will as well, it will reduce interference and produce a more reliable network in the long run. Regards Paul -----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Monday, 13 April 2015 2:56 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings Hi Jason, For me, personally, it is never a simple formula - usually, default is the initial state. After that, depending on the behaviour of the resulting network connections, some tweaking will follow. Others on this list may have alternative schemes ;) The solution may be software configuration adjustment (retry, timer, nstreme, nv2 etc) or it may be hardware configuration (e.g sector antennas) Regards, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) Sent: Monday, 13 April 2015 2:43 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings
Hi,
Thanks for the information. I'll cut to the chase... what do you use when setting AP's, especially ones with an omni antenna, for indoor use and outdoor use and how to any deviations from the default improve things?
Regards Jason Hecker
On 10 April 2015 at 17:19, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi Jason, ok: here goes! ;-)
Thanks. OK, outside of the default settings you're saying there isn't much that can be done in the Data Rates, Advanced and HT tabs that might have a decent impact on speeds?
That is essentially true - especially for indoor environment, things change so much that there is probably not one set of configuration that will be optimal in all cases.
The Wireless Wiki doesn't go into any depth on some of the settings.
True, some items deserve a bit more detail ;)
Like when to set Distance to Indoors vs Dynamic Putting values into the threshold fields - do they have any effect?
Default is 'indoors' - i.e. the clients are very close, so normal ack timeouts are short (default) You only need to change it if there are cliets at long distances - (farther distances have longer round-trip times, so need to wait a bit longer for the ack reply)
What effect does the adaptive noise immunity really have?
Here it is:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ#What_is_adaptive- noi se-imm unity_setting.3F
Essentially it is a feature of the Atheros wifi chip - it adjusts settings like hardware retry count and ack timeout values according to how the network is operating. Like if the average retry count per second starts to climb, it can increase the max count value to try to avoid retraining the connection too often. It's not really a mikrotik feature, just like a register in the hardware that can be enabled from routerOS (i.e. mikrotik just provide a user interface to enable/disable that register)
Is it better to disable b/g if you don't need it?
Only if you think that b/g clients are connecting and bringing down your total data rates. Reason is that b/g use more airtime to pass the same amount of data, so if you prevent them from connecting, only faster clients connect, thus more bandwidth to go around for all ;)
Does putting a value in for burst time help in certain situations?
Only when there is only one (or very few) clients expected to use that network at any given time. It allows devices to transmit larger chunks of data without having to break it into smaller bits and 'take turns' with others.
When is it appropriate to enable RTS and RTS/CTS?
It is old-school technique to try to avoid hidden node and deal with clients at widely varying distance and location from the AP. It can be useful in a very busy network. The idea is that a client transmits a 'ready to send' packet and wait for 'clear to send' instruction from the AP rather than jump in and start transmitting as soon as the device detects what looks like clear air. RTS is only small, and so less destructive than full data transmit in hidden node situation.
<cheap plug>There is MTCWE (wireless engineer) class running after the MUM in melbourne next month - deals with these isssues and some more ;) </cheap plug>
Cheers!
Mike.
-- _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
OK, thanks to both of you for this information. I am familiar with adjusting various settings but never hit upon any combination that got consistent speeds like the Aerohive provided - though as you say Mike it has a few tricks up it's sleeve - it has to justify the price! On 13 April 2015 at 15:05, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I 100% agree with Mike on this, there is no silver bullet in wireless, EVERY situation is different, even the same situation is different next time you are there.
Standard settings usually work well, I only run N when I need it, I only try and push enough capacity for the link requirements and detune to keep it in check, that way it is a quieter link and tends to be more reliable and attract less interference.
A friend of mine runs a large wireless ISP business, his suggestions to me over time have been invaluable and greatly appreciated, in general though there are two setups that I stick with, in a PTMP scenario I use NV2 due to it being TDMA and set the TDMA size as auto, when running a PTP link I use Nstreme with defaults, and use the wireless-fp package when using NV2, it seems more stable.
Other than that, and ask Mike says once again, just play with your settings, the out of the box settings will work for 95% of cases, others you may just need to do some tweaking, the most important thing to do IMHO is tread lightly, I follow this concept in my off-road adventures as well as wireless, only use the bandwidth you need, be sensible and hopefully others will as well, it will reduce interference and produce a more reliable network in the long run.
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Everest Sent: Monday, 13 April 2015 2:56 PM To: 'MikroTik Australia Public List' Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings
Hi Jason,
For me, personally, it is never a simple formula - usually, default is the initial state. After that, depending on the behaviour of the resulting network connections, some tweaking will follow.
Others on this list may have alternative schemes ;)
The solution may be software configuration adjustment (retry, timer, nstreme, nv2 etc) or it may be hardware configuration (e.g sector antennas)
Regards, Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) Sent: Monday, 13 April 2015 2:43 PM To: MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Optimal wireless settings
Hi,
Thanks for the information. I'll cut to the chase... what do you use when setting AP's, especially ones with an omni antenna, for indoor use and outdoor use and how to any deviations from the default improve things?
Regards Jason Hecker
On 10 April 2015 at 17:19, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
Hi Jason, ok: here goes! ;-)
Thanks. OK, outside of the default settings you're saying there isn't much that can be done in the Data Rates, Advanced and HT tabs that might have a decent impact on speeds?
That is essentially true - especially for indoor environment, things change so much that there is probably not one set of configuration that will be optimal in all cases.
The Wireless Wiki doesn't go into any depth on some of the settings.
True, some items deserve a bit more detail ;)
Like when to set Distance to Indoors vs Dynamic Putting values into the threshold fields - do they have any effect?
Default is 'indoors' - i.e. the clients are very close, so normal ack timeouts are short (default) You only need to change it if there are cliets at long distances - (farther distances have longer round-trip times, so need to wait a bit longer for the ack reply)
What effect does the adaptive noise immunity really have?
Here it is:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ#What_is_adaptive- noi se-imm unity_setting.3F
Essentially it is a feature of the Atheros wifi chip - it adjusts settings like hardware retry count and ack timeout values according to how the network is operating. Like if the average retry count per second starts to climb, it can increase the max count value to try to avoid retraining the connection too often. It's not really a mikrotik feature, just like a register in the hardware that can be enabled from routerOS (i.e. mikrotik just provide a user interface to enable/disable that register)
Is it better to disable b/g if you don't need it?
Only if you think that b/g clients are connecting and bringing down your total data rates. Reason is that b/g use more airtime to pass the same amount of data, so if you prevent them from connecting, only faster clients connect, thus more bandwidth to go around for all ;)
Does putting a value in for burst time help in certain situations?
Only when there is only one (or very few) clients expected to use that network at any given time. It allows devices to transmit larger chunks of data without having to break it into smaller bits and 'take turns' with others.
When is it appropriate to enable RTS and RTS/CTS?
It is old-school technique to try to avoid hidden node and deal with clients at widely varying distance and location from the AP. It can be useful in a very busy network. The idea is that a client transmits a 'ready to send' packet and wait for 'clear to send' instruction from the AP rather than jump in and start transmitting as soon as the device detects what looks like clear air. RTS is only small, and so less destructive than full data transmit in hidden node situation.
<cheap plug>There is MTCWE (wireless engineer) class running after the MUM in melbourne next month - deals with these isssues and some more ;) </cheap plug>
Cheers!
Mike.
-- _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
--
speeds like the Aerohive provided - though as you say Mike it has a few
Hi Jason, tricks
up it's sleeve - it has to justify the price!
That's it in the end - there are quite a few options around these days that use all manner of proprietary measures to try to improve wireless performance (aerohive and ruckus are the most common/popular as far as I can tell) but it always comes down to cost benefit in the end. To be honest, I have never been able to feel fully satisfied that there really is such significant benefit from one of these devices that makes the extra expense worth spending, and I have heard as many reports from folks that have tried them and been disappointed, as those who have tried them and been satisfied - others, I'm sure, will have different experiences: I'd love to hear some real world reports on them! :-} Cheers! Mike.
participants (3)
-
Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) -
Mike Everest -
Paul Julian